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Post by knoxie on Oct 14, 2008 11:25:47 GMT 10
Hi Guys
As the Flying Season Takes Off ( pun intended )
Just remember if you are on the SC Eastern faces - Recomended you do not fly behind the Fence - mainly because of spectators & property, and usually there is a nasty rotor in this area that has a tendency to smite thee to the earth.
Plan you landing approach, talk to the other pilots so they know when to move back to the fence.
I guess if we remain spectator friendly and safe, there won't be any issues and flyers and spectators can all enjoy SC together.
I have found when not sure - ask one of the experanced guys and have always found willing help and good advice.
Cheers Knoxie
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Post by felix on Oct 14, 2008 22:49:57 GMT 10
agreed mate. one thing to collect another flyer (really unavoidable where/how we fly) but a spectator is another matter  |
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Post by skyzking on Oct 15, 2008 8:31:04 GMT 10
Also agreed Knoxie, it will only take one incident report by a pedestrian/spectator for the Council to ban rc gliders at SC.
We all must be careful and fly with care.
Cheers,
Abdullah...
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Post by skyboyken on Oct 15, 2008 22:08:32 GMT 10
In the interests of full disclosure and because I believe that spreading accurate info about crashes helps prevent the same mistake being made by anyone else:
I blew a landing approach at SC last Sunday because I haven't flown there for quite a while and because I have a newly refurbished wing I didn't want to damage.
I came up over the lip intending to just put it down in front of myself and it ballooned - not much but enough to make me hesitate because I knew it would be a hard landing. My hesitation was all it took for the wing to fly past me, over the fence and into a group of spectators. It hit one man in the eye.
I went and checked on them and of course made a sincere apology which they accepted with good grace. No-one suffered any lasting damage, fortunately.
I agree entirely with the above comments, and with the procedure to not fly past the fence no matter what. If that means turning a plane into a loosely associated set of bits then I for one will do exactly that rather than risk a spectator injury.
Ken.
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Post by Pij on Oct 15, 2008 22:34:37 GMT 10
This sounds awful. I think the Point Vernon site would be very similar, but at Elliott Heads I have a lot of rarely-used backside for landings, and at the Barolin slope there is a grassed frontside. The nearby Barolin cliffs may be a different matter, but the NE winds come infrequently, so I don't have enough flights there to really say for sure.
That said, I came very close to a family milling around the picnic table at EH, the day I met Morg at EH. That was from trying to keep the Duck up when the lift was just not there.
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Post by ding on Oct 21, 2008 20:53:42 GMT 10
I think the other thing to put in your mind before landing at SC is that down elevator is your friend. These are foam aeroplanes that can take a beating. If you think you're going to crash over the fence just crash the thing before it gets there!
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Post by felix on Oct 21, 2008 20:56:26 GMT 10
now there's some good advice (saved my neck a few times!)
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Post by chamm37 on Oct 21, 2008 23:03:57 GMT 10
same era felix.....saved my neck a couple of times aswell ae  |
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Post by knoxie on Oct 22, 2008 9:15:34 GMT 10
Best thing is that we are all on the same wave length.
Knoxie
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Post by ding on Oct 25, 2008 6:22:59 GMT 10
Can I also say that I think people should be considering this aspect when they fly at SC. Consider if your aeroplane did hit someone what would happen? Be careful putting lumps of lead on the outside. Enclose linkages and or do U bends so if they did contact someone or something it wont grab or tear. In my bee I split the battery and moved the two halves outboard (Idea from Andrew VB - thanks). This gave extra padding in the nose, and has had the upshot of it being easier on the gear because it's not being pushed back through the structure. It also means there are no hard points should the worst happen. My assertion is that if these steps are taken I'd much rather be hit by one of these than a well hit tennis ball but there are any number of gliders out there that I couldn't say this for. In all the time I've been at SC I've only seen one glider draw blood (I know of one other incident though) and the one that did was a coreflute plane with a wooden nose. Luckily for them it was Mike they hit, not a pedestrian. I mean, what did they expect? Fly careful everyone  |
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Post by knoxie on Dec 3, 2008 15:10:17 GMT 10
Hi Guys
I really don't to be like big brother, but please take this as it is ment, just an observation
I have seen in the last couple of days where a model landed several times on the road and the footpath ( one directly in front of a pram)
Also a heavy fast model doing high speed passes behind the fence line.
It all looks good but please remember we don't want anyone complaining to the council.
The reason I am posting is because a Lady with two kids was walking past and the kids wanted to watch and the Mum said "they could not stay to watch because they might get hit by a plane"
I just don't want to loose our great and unique flying site.
Cheers
knoxie
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Post by ding on Dec 3, 2008 19:18:55 GMT 10
Hi Guys I really don't to be like big brother, but please take this as it is ment, just an observation I have seen in the last couple of days where a model landed several times on the road and the footpath ( one directly in front of a pram) Also a heavy fast model doing high speed passes behind the fence line. It all looks good but please remember we don't want anyone complaining to the council. The reason I am posting is because a Lady with two kids was walking past and the kids wanted to watch and the Mum said "they could not stay to watch because they might get hit by a plane" I just don't want to loose our great and unique flying site. Cheers knoxie Amen Bro! |
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Post by felix on Dec 3, 2008 23:30:25 GMT 10
Knoxie you’re more the right with what you say. After our conversation this afternoon i put a bit of thought into this tonight over a couple of brews and thought if we did a bit of self regulation we could greatly improve our safety record.
The places I have seen the most near misses and mishaps are:
1.landing and hand catching amongst other flyers especially with spectators directly behind
2.combat
3.fast passes
4.getting too slow and getting caught downwind
……I admit to being guilty of ALL of the of the above as are the vast majority.
So far by a large margin no.1 and.2 are the cause of most but thankfully are easy to adjust.
The other major hazard is heavy/fast/hard models but as Andrew and others have demonstrated can be safely flown if you stick to safe limits (once again I admit to being guilty to pushing it occasionally).
So here’s a few ideas I think will improve our chances of not getting kicked off the cliff over injury or damage especially as our group seems to grow almost weekly, hoping others will add to this discussion:
1.a designated landing area clear of the usual standing point should be adhered to. Say on the eastern slope the point where Andrew brings his mouldies in. this area is clear of other flyers and with a quick shoulder check for spectators standing there or approaching (maybe even a polite warning to any standing there) will be perfectly safe. The SE corner is even easier as landing down the park is a piece of cake.
2.Combat is a tricky one and something most of us can’t help ourselves with (I know I can’t lol). On the eastern slope this is a huge potential problem. The best bet for this one is to only be involved if one is very confident with the controls. Also I have noticed we nearly always end up combating directly over our heads which leaves little room for recovery and a short path to either ourselves, spectators, cars, houses etc behind us. Maybe the best bet for this one is to move it out away from the slope (offers a huge buffer zone) or if that’s not possible put that tree to the left of our usual spot between the combat and the road? Even a soft foamy is a potential causeof a black eye, blood nose, etc and “no flying” signs.
3.Fast passes is something I am very guilt of and others are in the same boat. A piece of foam at 100+ is going to cause a lot of pain. In my defence I will say a few things, ALWAYS call out that you are coming through and make sure the path is CLEAR of models, make the flight path not inline with anyone, make sure no one is coming along the footpath (most important), try to aim for a point away from anything that is below and away from the slope. I have never ended up anywhere where I could of hurt someone doing this but a single glitch or a dead battery could definitely change this if you happen to push it a little. Of course myself and others push these boundaries quite a lot further then we should and the potential is there.
4.Getting slow and heading downwind has too many variables to govern. New models, inexperience, unexpected contact, etc are some of the factors. Best bet here is to just keep always in mind and “dump” the plane if it even looks remotely like it’s heading that way. Also keep an eye on new flyers and offer advice and explain why.
Maybe another idea to keep our site secure is to start a “kitty”,all chip in and offer a bottle of wine etc to the houses that directly line our slope. A simple xmas gift and a thankyou from the SC flyers to the dozen or so households would cost bugger all if we all chipped in. may just give us some good grace and a good standing in case of the worst.
So what’s the opinions out there? protecting our site is something every single one of us should be involved in.
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Post by ding on Dec 4, 2008 18:32:37 GMT 10
All those points have some merit. I'm afraid I think that model type is a significant factor. Damage is weight times speed. The army worked that out some time ago.... I know I'll offend people, but I think slow foam are the only suitable models for these slopes. I think mouldies are dangerous. Yes you can stay out of trouble mostly, and chances are you can land them pretty much on the spot. The problem is that if "something" happened (radio shootdown, gear malfunction, bump into a foamy that damages a linkage) and you hit a house unlike foam you could actually do some serious damage. You could easily pierce a roof, break a car window, and certainly dint a car panel. If the hit was on a someone you could do serious, serious damage. I have seen small powered models that would have similar weights and probably lower speeds than large gliders pierce galvanised tin. I'm afraid that with a light foamy it's very very difficult (or impossible) to come up with a worse case that could bring about a serious injury. I've seen foamies absolutely nail cars on several occasions and I've not seen a dint to date. We must remember that foamies are made of PACKING FOAM that is designed to cushion stuff from impact. We should all try our best to minimise hardpoints on our planes and eliminate external protrudances that could cause injury. I also think that powered models are a risk to us. While they have safety implications, I don't think that's the problem. Noise is the problem. If I paid $1mill + for a house and then had buzz buzz buzz out the window I think there are people out there who would find that annoying. EDIT: I do acknowledge that foamies are flown far more than mouldies. I guess that I am trying to say that those model types go from one extreme to the other. Even fast heavy foam could be dangerous. So what you can to minimise the risk. I should also say that I think that peoples flying skills are improving which is helping the situation somewhat. Everyone has to learn somewhere though. I've seen a number of people do things that I know and they know are risky. But they do it anyway. Just fly safe EDIT2: You've touched on it Felix but have people thought it might not be the flying that causes us problems? I reckon be nice to spectators. Watch your language. Answer their questions which you've done 10 times a day. Show them why foamies aren't dangerous. Generally be fun. Offer them a biscuit.  Basically make us an invaluable part of the SC scene. It could be that if someone didn't like the general disturbance they they could use a perceived safety risk to try and get rid of a group of people. I know I had someone in one of the houses tell me I couldn't park in front of their house because I was spoiling their view. That is a mind bendingly selfish thing to say (I have a right to park anywhere legally). Still, I moved my car.... If things did turn ugly the more friends we have the better |
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Post by felix on Dec 4, 2008 20:30:33 GMT 10
Yes your right about “hard” models being a far more potentially dangerous projectile there steve but which model ends up over the fence the most often? It’s more about exposed risk that should be the concern.
As for soft foam not able to cause damage you’re absolutely right and at worst a broken window can be repaired. The real danger is one of these “soft” models hitting someone especially a child or elderly person. Even the softest/most snag free model can cause damage to the eye or ear very very easily. Being nice to people is all great and goes along way but hit someones child/grandmother, give someone a black eye, hit a moving car and all the good grace in the world is not going to save you or our site. At the moment all it would take is for one disgruntled tenant across the road to record only one of our Sunday sessions and make a complaint and I’m certain we would be shut down.
If we can just take a couple of very small steps like keeping combat at a safe distance ,landing where there is no chance of collecting anyone and flying with the “what ifs” in the back of our mind we’ll be a hell of a lot more secure in keeping our site. In the end this is only my view without my head in the sand and I’m not trying to cause an argument, taking anything on board here is purely upto the individual.
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