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Post by skyboyken on Feb 7, 2010 19:15:37 GMT 10
I guess you could call today a washout!! Love the flying boat glider idea. Let's do a club build of a scale Pelican . Definitely feeling behind the 8-ball when it comes to prep for Milang. I'm confident I can substantially improve my launch height, given a good days practice with the Shooter (which I've not been able to organise for 3 weeks now) but I still need a lot of flying on a course to get some consistent basis for Speed, and even more to be anything like set up for Distance, which I actually think is the best task of the lot because you have to think well on your feet AND fly well, but you don't have a prayer unless you're well prepared. So, Jeff and Brian I know you spend time here. David looks in sometimes and I have no idea about Ken F and Evan. Are you guys interested in getting together before Milang and doing some focused practice? If so, where and when? I note the Tassie guys had Steve Keep down for a flying/coaching session in the last fortnight (he's a current F3B team member) so they are intending to show with their game faces on. Ideally I'd like 2 full days on a course before we leave, plus a day beforehand to focus on launch. What do you think? Ken.
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Post by bananaman on Feb 8, 2010 7:21:44 GMT 10
I would really like to get some practise in, but I now have no weekends off until the event. I do have the week off before hand though.
I've downgraded my expectations to "learning experience only"
Hopefully you can catch up with the others. We all need some stick time.
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Post by David on Feb 8, 2010 7:57:01 GMT 10
Ideally I'd like 2 full days on a course before we leave, plus a day beforehand to focus on launch. What do you think? Ken. Me too, but the majority of the model I'm flying at Milang is still raw materials so that's where I'll be. I reckon that I'll test fly the Larrikin the same day the Sniper has it's maiden. If you look in a dictionary for "Unprepared" you'll find my name next to it. David.
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Post by skyboyken on Feb 8, 2010 11:50:20 GMT 10
David,
Ahhh! Do you have nothing to fly to get your thumbs in? If not you're welcome to use my Caracho if you'd like to make time on a Sat or Sun.
Brian,
bugger!
Jeff,
yes I'm keen to go weekend after next. Happy to fly both days if you're available. I have 2 tripods and 4 2mm carbon rods. All we need for a course is to drill a couple of holes in 2 pieces of ply and mount them to the tripods, plus a 150m measuring device. Do you think we can get together one evening and finish the bases so we can practice?
Ken.
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Post by nick on Feb 11, 2010 5:14:26 GMT 10
OK well if we don't get heaps of rain before the weekend you guys will be right for a fly, i got the tractor all of the winch area and slashed but i haven't been able to get onto all the out landing area, the main landing area has been slashed, the only real wet part for walking on is just where you got your parachute from if you set the turnarounds up at the north end, lets hope for sunshine, and the faser is getting some work done her. nick
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Post by graememarion on Feb 11, 2010 6:16:31 GMT 10
I know this picture was only posted for a bit of fun. I am sure you guys are more experienced than me. So I feel like I am trying to teach my grand-mother how to suck eggs. But I will say it anyhow just in case. You will get more height on the launch if you double ring your line. There should be a ring at the base of the parachute shrouds. If this ring also goes onto the tow hook then the parachute will not try to open and will give less drag on the launch. I am sure you already knew this. I apologise in advance for stating the obvious. Humbly yours....Graeme
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Post by skyboyken on Feb 11, 2010 10:55:07 GMT 10
Hi Nick, good to hear from you. Thanks heaps for doing the slashing, you're a gent! And GREAT to hear the Fazer's getting some fettling Hi Graememarion, most of us actually use quite a different system with no rings at all. Come out on Sunday and I'll show you . Ken.
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Post by skyboyken on Feb 11, 2010 10:56:46 GMT 10
So it looks good for weather on Sunday, bewdy!!
Who's up for a winch in the morning?
Ken.
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Post by graememarion on Feb 11, 2010 12:28:44 GMT 10
Hi Ken, I'd love to go flying with you but unfortunately family commitments prevent it.
Any chance you could post a picture of your ring-less set-up?
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Post by jirvin4505 on Feb 11, 2010 13:05:06 GMT 10
Hi Ken, ..snip... Any chance you could post a picture of your ring-less set-up? scroll down this page.... seat.org.au/projects.htmlwill give you an idea of how it's done cheers jeff
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Post by graememarion on Feb 11, 2010 14:11:47 GMT 10
Excellent article Jeff.
Thanks, I hadn't seen that before.
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Post by nick on Feb 11, 2010 15:37:45 GMT 10
all slashed today and it's starting to dry up nicely
;D ;D ;D
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Post by mikey100 on Feb 11, 2010 17:57:39 GMT 10
I am using a standard f3b chute which is of a small diameter and have tried standard hookup and double- hooking and saw no noticable difference in launch-height off my bungees. Does double-hooking (ringless) really make a noticable difference, or is it just for the top level champions trying to get the extra 1 or 2 metres? I know my chutes are very small (app 12 cm radius) and of light materials which appears to add little drag in standard setup. Find the standard setup also releases cleanly at top of launch.
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Post by nick on Feb 11, 2010 19:04:43 GMT 10
hi there mikey
i use a ring on my winch at the chute, the only reason i use it is to save the chute being pulled through the turnaround as i have an airstrike one and they are rather large. if i didn't have that trouble i would not use a ring, so to maybe stop some damage the ring might cause to the planes fuse, if any at all.
see ya mate
regards nick
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Post by bananaman on Feb 11, 2010 20:44:20 GMT 10
Does it make a difference? Joe Wurts says so, that's good enough for me.
But, does it really make a difference? I say yes.
During the actual climb out? Probably not much for a hard winch launch because under strong tension a straight, double hooked or ringless the 'chute can't open. But there could be differences in actual drag but I agree it would probably be small. Thinking just about profile drag, the 'chute frontal area presented to the wind, maybe its half or quarter, but what real world value is it? Really depends on 'chute size and how it is constructed and how fast the model "flies" up the line. How much drag does flapping around behind the hook have compared to one under tension flapping around inline? How do we measure it?
At Armidale I saw a setup I haven't come across before in competitions. I can't see an advantage but more risk. A straight hooked 'chute with a 1m extension from the ring to the model (open class). It did allow a good view of the 'chute staying closed during the launch and it deploying at the bottom of the "dip".
For a softer bungee or floater winch launch with much lower tensions I reckon a straight hooked 'chute can start to open and yes that will have an affect. I've seen 'chutes pulsing like jelly fish swimming on gentle "tap tap" winch launches. A double hooked or ringless setup (used as designed) can't possibly deploy with low or high tension.
As for the dive into the eventual zoom, it is very important there. As you convert line tension into speed, the 'chute will be able to open. The usable elastic energy in the line is dampened by the billowed 'chute and you may well fly into it or the line. If its still connected and beginning to billow you have a much higher risk of tangling with it. Also a strong reason to stay on the pedal during the zoom and not get off it. Something you can't get wrong with a bungee launch.
The bigger the 'chute, the greater this risk is. The smaller 15cm2 FAI parachutes are pretty safe used properly from line/tail wraps etc.
I have had 4 tail wraps I can remember. I have not had one since I started using ringless "double hooked" chutes about 7 years ago and that would equate to many, many hundreds of launches since.
So I think the advantage for greater height for the model during the first phase of a hard winch launch is small but much greater when getting that potential energy in the line converted into model speed during the "dip" by not having the chute billow.
I'll be seeing Joe in 2 weeks, I'll ask him his considered opinion and report back.
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