How to Lose a Flying Site

[skyboyken]

Hi guys,

below is a reprint of an email which has been sent to all members of the Maleny RC Glider Club. I'm reposting it here in case someone's spam filter takes out their copy, and to show just how easy it is to lose a flying site permanently.

So if you're a MRCGC member, please tell every other member you talk to about this!!!

"Members !

I've had a very disturbing couple of phone calls from the owner and channel 7 today concerning the gate locks at Bald Knob, If in the future our lock is not placed correctly in the chain, and is locking out any one else lock the site will be CLOSED to the club other than by appointment only, that is to say ONLY when I can get there. This is due some people not being able to do a simple task like locking the gate properly and checking it, thus not being inconvenient to the main users of the site i.e.Channel 7 Tecs,The owner and the lease farmer,
By the way are NOT Happy about being locked out of their property!

This is how other sites have been lost!

The owner has told me that if we are banned of the site NO body can fly there at all.

Greg Roper
President
MR/CGC"

Ken.

[thevon]

Ken I just sent Greg a reply saying:

"Greg,
I haven't used my key since club AGM.

But on Friday Janet and I walked up there, and there were contractors doing some work. I can't remember their name but they were hoisting stuff up onto the tower with ropes and harnesses etc. There were 4 guys there, we spoke to them to let them know I was a club member etc but they didn't seem to have a clue about any club. They had 2 or 3 vehicles.

So I guess it's possible that they didn't lock the gate properly?

Andrew"

[sean]

A few thoughts:

* Clearly label our lock so if someone gets locked out they can see whether or not we are to blame (stops people from just assuming its 'those dopey rc guys'). I'm happy to do that (could simply be a label wrapped with lots of clear tape to water proof it).

* Rather than having our lock in series with the dozen or so other locks as it is now, can we have our lock on its own link like it used to be on the old gate? That would make it harder for one of us to accidentally put the lock back the wrong way (I don't remember this ever being a problem on the old gate).

I know it seems pretty easy to make sure all the locks are in series, but all we need is one occasion where one of our 30 or so members is not concentrating while locking the gate, and we could be in trouble. The above could go someway to avoiding that possibility.

Sean.

[mikey100]

I think that I am the newest club member, now have a key (from the club) and am yet to use it.... but assumed it was the same as every one elses and that it fitted the ONE club lock. Are there different locks in series for different club members?If so, I could be there a while working out which lock my key fits- sort of like a 70's game show!
By the way, this is the first I knew of this as I didn't get an e-mail, so thanks Greg for posting here. Cheers, Mikey.

[nick]

i spoke to the channel seven guy about 4 weeks ago, as he blamed a few of us for the gate being locked while we were up there and we WEREN'T the ones to blame, and he said he was keen to put a single lock on the gate, even if we had to pay ten bucks for a new key each, it would be well worth it!

i can see why these guys get pis##d off, they are only doing thier job and an unlockable gate would make me wild too, as Sean says lets see if Greg can get us to do the old way of locking the gate with our lock separate, or a single lock, what do other members think?

regards nick

[combatnoosa]

Im not even a member up there yet... and I noticed the locks on that gate when I went up there once, thought to myself that there must have been quite a few keys lost to have that many locks, one lock would make allot of sense. But that is just me, By the way im back in the rainy coast, got a wing seat on the way back, my fiancee now knows exactly how the control surfaces on a wing work

[Garth]

As i have been a member of TMAC for a few years, they don't use a key and lock. They have a combination lock so every year the combination changes when you renew the membership. So old members cant open the gate. Multiple locks on 1 gate is always going to be a problem.

Hope it all works out.

[cdsloper]

Hey, just my two cents worth, I have to agree with Gath on this one. I'm a member of the, "Hinterland Model Flying Club" and we use a combination lock. It takes away all the hassle of forgetting/losing keys, and for those of us who are sufferers of C.R.A.F.T. disease,(my hand is up here) you store the combination number on your phone under something like, "Gate Code". Quite simple really.

[bananaman]

MRSSA lost its great slope site a few years ago under very similar circumstances. It was simple system, one gate - two locks in series. One for the farmer and one for us. Keys were cycled each year plus a steep key fee was payable.

A combo lock or whatever won't help when you have more than one lock and it is AT ALL possible to lock the chain bypassing the other lock.

Maybe someone got their wife/girlfriend/son/daughter/friend to close the gate and lock it that day and our member didn't check. Maybe it started raining and they left in a hurry.

We'll never know how it happened in the end, but it did 3 times over a number of years. This was despite repeated warnings to members and reminders. For the farmer it was the last straw as that day of all days was one where he had organised earthmoving gear to do work in that paddock.

It seems incredible that someone still managed to stuff up and we didn't have that many members!

We talked about it and should have done it. Purchased and fitted our own gate. It is the only idiot free way to not lock out someone else. BUT people can still leave it open/unlocked etc.

Be very strict, be very careful and good luck, you'll need it. Humans can be sooooo clever and yet sooooo dumb.
Brian

[ezza]

Hi Brian,

I have not seen what the new gate setup at BN is like, but I think your idea of a second gate is an excellent way to make it more 'idiot' proof. It would only be a small fee to all members.

Eric

[prez]

Hi guys, combo locks don't work every body tells all their mates and there still can be locks locked out and the people that should know combo don't.

One lock common keys. Keys can be copied then every body ends up with a key and no way to keep track.
Old members new members people that shouldn't have a key, locks would need to be changed all the time,The owner ,channel 7 doesn't want that .

Bottom line its the owners property, channel 7's property we do what they want not what we
want, we are the guest there, gone at a moments notice!

It all comes down to us members!

How hard is it to lock a gate properly, we fly R/C gliders locking a gate simple thing to do.

Greg
MRCGC

[skyboyken]

From my discussions with Greg and others it seems to come down to this:

1. The owner and Channel 7 aren't interested in helping us come up with alternate solutions. They are saying very clearly 'comply with our rules as they are, or you are gone from Bald Knob'. As Greg says above, we are guests and we have been making ourselves unwelcome. Either we all pull our fingers out and get this right, or we're finished at Bald Knob.

2. Anyone who can build and fly a model aircraft is capable of putting a lock in the right place on a gate. I've done it wrong in the past so I'm not pointing any fingers. I'm simply saying that no-one in our club can say they can't do it right, so this is a matter of every one of us making sure it is done right - every time from now on.

3. I think Brian makes a good point above - don't let guests/friends/relatives lock the gate. Get out of your car yourself, every time whether entering or leaving, and lock the gate yourself.

Ken.

Who wants to still be flying at Bald Knob when he's 90 .

[sean]

I dunno guys. We're having problems with the gate, we only have one more chance. Is it really the best idea to just do nothing? Are we sure that everyone is aware of the problem (not everyone reads this forum or the Yahoo Groups)? What about 12 months or two years down the track when this discussion is a distant memory? I for one find the daisy chain of locks strangely confusing, I don't know why, it should be simple but it isn't. It was simple on the old gate.

After this discussion I know I personally won't put the lock back the wrong way but I think it's a big risk to do nothing. One mistake, no more MRCGC.

[skyboyken]

Hi Sean,

I don't see telling every member the situation and the need to get it right as doing nothing.

If you have ideas to contribute now would be the time.

From my conversations with Greg, he has already asked and Channel 7 are not interested in having our lock separate from the others on its own piece of chain.

A separate gate for us to use is not an option unless we are prepared to pay for earthworks to create another point of entry at road level.

I don't understand how changing the type of lock, i.e. to a combination lock, solves the problem. I understand it works well at TMAC where they have hundreds of members and keys are a nightmare. Our issue is different; the issue isn't keys, it's the lock being locked in the wrong place and a combo lock won't change that. Greg is giving Channel 7 a key to our lock so at least 1 person in their organisation can access it.

Please understand that something is happening here that hasn't happened before. Channel 7 have gone to the owner and basically said we are stuffing up their operations and if it happens again they want us out. I understand that to mean that until and unless things settle down, we have to get it right FROM TODAY.

So I am in favour of keeping it simple and focusing on what's important.

Does anyone believe that we have any club member who is not capable of locking the gate correctly? If yes, please call me on 0418692763 and let's talk about it. If no, then there's no reason except lack of care to get it wrong. If we have a member who is prepared to be careless about this then we are stuffed, and nothing will save us from that.

So I suggest we all make sure everyone who turns up to Bald Knob knows all about this, and we each accept responsibility both for doing it right ourself, and also for making sure that everybody else gets it right as well.

Ken.

[nick]

howdy every frustrated RC flyer

here is, i hope my last two bobs worth

a mistake with the lock again is defiantly going to happen, it's human nature, we fly gliders worth thousands of dollars and we do dumb thumbs and judgment errors that cause a crash, so a misplaced lock will happen

we all know how simple it is to lock a gate, but the excitement of getting up the hill or racing home and telling your mates how good it was is not and excuse from stuffing the site, please take your time everyone !

Ken or Greg
why won't channel 7 let us change the lock??

two good alternatives have been said, i reckon

single lock or our lock with chain both sides

if we could do one of the two then there would be no more problems as i see it,

as Sean says it is confusing when you see all those locks.

if we lose access to the site there would be a bunch of fitter guys flying RC because i would gladly walk up to the top.

i really think we have to be pro active here with this gate thing or we are just treading water waiting to sink

sorry Greg but one key common locks can't just be coppied, that's why mine has a do not copy stamp on it.

please greg as our club president try and talk to the channel 7 boss and the farm owner again about our concerns and if needed maybe we can all have a meeting with him

regards nick