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Post by ezza on Oct 28, 2007 21:54:11 GMT 10
I have been waiting patiently for some good winds and today I finally scored some. Managed to up my PB to 184mph today!! Best thing it was at a treeline spot about 10 minutes from my house!!!! Couldn't get over 160 and the Opus was being thrown around all over the place. Loaded her up with full wing ballast and instantly cruised in the 160-175 range. Managed several laps between 180-183mph. I have gone into the 150's at this place with an average windspeed of 17 knots(at the nearest windstation). Today the average was 18-20knots. Amazing the difference a couple of extra knots can make!
Extremely turbulent and I had several close calls. There is a powerline right down where the best place to bottom turn is, and of course the trees at the top, along with a couple of other powerlines and flying from the edge of a fairly busy road with a house on the frontside. There is a zone in between all this and I think I am reaching the sites limits. There was a sweet spot, just above the trees and just above the powerline, I could manage 2-3 laps in this zone and then it just got too scarey for me. Very hard to nail succesive laps in the sweetspot.
My son Michael was on the radar gun and another local flyer, Marcus turned up and witnessed several laps in the 170's. My video camera recently died and my son could only manage a few seconds of footage on our digital camera whilst radaring at the same time. Planning on a new camera soon, just trying to decide what to get.
Went to another spot I recently found and this seemed better but some low clouds rolled in and even the JW quickly disappeared on punchouts.
What a fun day we had!! Makes it soo much better being close to home.
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Post by sean on Nov 6, 2007 19:06:57 GMT 10
The following was originally posted in the "Who's flying where" thread but Andrew suggested I move it to here  ... We had a great day with Ezza down at Byron yesterday! Such a nice place to spend an afternoon. Most of Ezza's local DS spots are absolutely crazy! The spot where we got the Reaper up to 110 was bizarre, it's not your typical DS site at all, first you launch at the top of a hill in a paddock, fly over a treeline which is almost as high as the top of the hill, then you get some height above the trees. The trees block your view down so you have to have confidence in your plane and the conditions, it would be hard to find if you went down. Then you walk to one of a few possible DS grooves. There's powerlines right where the best grooves would be so you have to fly over or behind or in front of the lines depending on what's working. With the Reaper, we found a really good quite smooth groove way back from the treeline flying above and behind the powerlines. It was quite freaky, the powerlines are in your mind the whole time because to get a good groove requires that you fly quite close to them, and to top it off there are trees and cows in the way as well! The nice thing though is where you fly is completely sheltered from the wind so you get really good aural feedback from the plane... it's possible to hear when you cross the shear layer and you can hear the plane pass through turbulence. This really helps to maintain a good groove. The spot where Ezza got the Aus record with his Opus (184mph) is not much better! There are powerlines everywhere, a treeline creates the shear layer, there's a road between the frontside and backside, there's also a house right near the groove... Crazy stuff. These spots just aren't your tradional ridge style DS spots. Eric got his Opus out briefly and it is a work of art, the name really is appropriate. The weight is hard to believe, something like 2.3KG unballasted and only 1.9M span. The lift wasn't wasn't really good enough but he threw it out anyway. It took about 20 mins or more to get enough height to dive over to the back and when he did he said it was the slowest it had ever been, there just wasn't enough wind. It managed a 106, much less than that and it really does look like it's going to fall out of the sky. Apparently these planes can be unrecoverable if stalled so it really needs to be handled with kid gloves. Despite this Ezza kept at it for maybe 15 mins, some very brave flying. I tried my Reaper in the same place, it took about 30mins to get enough height on the front and when I did get it over to the back only managed 5 or so laps before it ran out of energy and required a quick landing on the back, narrowly missing a power pole in the process! |
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Post by sean on Nov 6, 2007 19:12:58 GMT 10
Further to the post above...
Ezza gave me a fly of his JW60 and it flies really nice. It flies much
lighter than its weight would suggest, like a Bee on Steroids. Flies
practically the same inverted as upright (it'd do outside loops easier
than any sloper I've flown) seems really tough but doesn't track nearly as well as the Reaper and I don't think it's as fast. I didn't DS it but saw Ezza doing so, I'd recommend it to anyone as a first DS plane for sure and it'd even be a great performer at tight places like Shorncliffe thanks to being quite easy to land for a plank.
Another interesting find from the day is that the Reaper is easily
faster than the Bat. We were flying one groove with the Bat and it was consistently doing 60mph laps. Got the Reaper out and it was immediately doing 70-80 yet looked slower.
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Post by ezza on Nov 6, 2007 21:21:33 GMT 10
The JW is a crazy plane. It can do anything with ease. Within seconds of handing Sean the transmitter he was doing consecutive inverted loops around the powerlines and all kinds of crazy moves. More snappy than the reaper and better for tight aerobatics. Flies just as well inverted. The reaper really tracks though and was obviously faster in the same conditions. It was a good comparison as both planes are still cleanly built and weigh the same.
The radar gun removes all optical illusions. The Reaper was definately faster than the Bat. The Bat just looks crazy though and is definately a high speed machine. The bigger wingspan looks slower I guess.
Sean, Have you noticed any more possible ds zones down your way yet? Get that bird done! You are sooo ready to ds glass and move that PB way up!!
Eric
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Post by sean on Nov 6, 2007 21:38:53 GMT 10
Yeah, the JW felt 'light' while the Reaper feels 'heavy', but with no ballast they weigh about the same with the same span. When we had them both in the air together the Reaper was struggling to stay up while the JW was staying up with ease.
I haven't found any new sites I'm afraid. That park in Montville that I thought might be good for treeline DS doesn't look as good as I first thought, it's 100M or so back from the hillside. Worth a try if I ever get a bungee but I'm guessing it'd be no good. I'm keeping an eye out for new spots though. DSed the camel hump today and there was a very light (<10kt) breeze coming straight up the slope. The backside is sooo smooth in those conditions you just can't go wrong, I had a great time DSing dad's Bee and the Reaper with full ballast. Still waiting on parts for the Bird, it would have been great today.
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Post by thevon on Nov 9, 2007 17:56:09 GMT 10
Went to Bald Knob to DS at the Camel Hump, based on the forecast for SSE winds, hoping for a repeat of the “perfect practice” conditions Sean had last Monday. It was marginal, but I did get a lot of practice in. I can't work out that wind at the hump. Frontside lift was a bit patchy, seemed too E to me, wind coming along the hill from the left at times, but then when I went up to the top for a break it seemed to be SSE so I couldn't understand it. It was never strong, a bit too light really but good practice.
Recently I had such a great session with the Ozprey at SC that I felt quite fond of it and wanted to try DSing it again. But I couldn’t get it working. It just wasn’t accelerating. I persisted for ages, trying different spots but no success. I think it revels in stronger lift and didn’t suit the lighter conditions today. So I threw out the Bat and instantly it soared up, flying fast and high, and when I dove it over the back it really sliced it up. Big, fast circuits. The difference was astounding. Like comparing a Mig fighter jet with a Gypsy Moth!
But the wind died out before long so I climbed back up to the car for a break, and afterwards, when the wind seemed to be picking up, I took the Minij down with me. Typically the Minij soared beautifully and efficiently on the frontside. Inspiring! I summoned the nerve to dip it over the back and DS it!
WELL! Now I understand what they mean when they say it's easier to DS composite planes. Much more stable, predictable tracking, good speed retention! It was great! Easy to control and correct the loops. I was going low and fast but didn't feel like I was going to lose it at any time! It wasn’t terribly fast - would go better with ballast, but I didn't put any in because I suspect the wings would break. (I’d like some full carbon Prodij wings!)
For guys like Steve (Ding) with instinctive flying skills, I reckon you’d just skip the learner -DS foamies, and go straight to a composite. You’d have no worries. (but obviously you also want a good foamie DSer for those gnarly spots!)
I was almost ready to go home as the wind wasn’t that great, and last minute decision gave the Drongo a go, and was totally surprised! It soared up and gained height really well, and when I put it over the back it really cranked! (ahem, I have to say “for me” because none of my DSing is all that fast!). It felt sort of heavy and stable, and hung onto its speed tremendously (had half ballast in). So I had lots more fun with that, dipping deep and whistling up out of the bowl – must have been only inches above those trees at the bottom!
I’m gradually improving the timing of the top turn. Sean correctly pointed out the other day that I’m “lingering too long at the top”. So I’ve been working on pulling up while the plane has lots of speed just after it’s come up thru the shear layer, rather than going higher and wider and losing speed. That top turn is critical and it’s where you keep or lose the speed. My brain gets confused as the speed picks up, and I have trouble keeping the pattern. My difficulty with DS is nothing complicated … it’s just a basic coordination problem. When the plane’s rocketing up the backside of the slope on knife-edge, or shooting over inverted, my brain has trouble working out which way to push the aileron stick to keep the plane carving the best track! No rocket science there! So days like today are a big help because they give plenty of stick time to “pattern” the brain into doing the right thing.
There are so many “ins and outs” with DS. There are plenty of days that I’ve been frustrated with the Drongo, but this arvo it was the best performer. The bigger wing gave it the extra lift needed in the marginal wind – it probably needed a bit more wind to really get the Bat cranking.
I’m still a learner and there’s always lots more to learn. At the start of the year I read that you should put the CG back till it’s getting hard to fly, then add a bit back. Do a dive test and it should be almost neutral. I think I took that too far, and for a long time I reckon I’ve been tending to fly my planes with the CG too far back, making them fly like dogs, which is probably another reason why I’ve been struggling with the Drongo. Couldn’t complain about it at all this arvo.
When I got home I looked at Seabreeze and was surprised to see that the wind today went quite E, so I’m surprised I got any Dsing at the Hump, and if it goes more S tomorrow it would be excellent.
There’s been a big fire around Bald Knob – most of the hillside on the NE to S has been razed, so the landings can be rough till the grass grows back. Amazing how many rocks are in there! There’s still good grass on the W side of the track at the top, and the fire stopped just short of the Hump. Also I also have to mention that Bald Knob is a club-only site (Maleny RC Gliding Club) so you have to be a member to go there … it’s not open to the public.
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Post by sean on Nov 9, 2007 18:35:59 GMT 10
That's excellent Andrew. Sure is a good spot when the conditions are right but as you've seen, when the conditions aren't 'just-so' it can stop working suddenly! The top turn is what it's all about I reckon. I like to think of the DS circuit as a racetrack, you need to drive around it hitting all the apexes as closely as possible to get good speed! That's part of why it's so addictive  . When the wind is sufficient banging the top turn really cranks up the speed as long as the plane's fairly efficient and up to the loads. I read an article in an aircraft magazine about DSing 'full-size' (man-carrying) gliders. It involved pushing and pulling on the stick at just the right time while passing through thermals, not at all the same as the DSing we do with models, but in it they state that for your plane to gain energy, it needs to push on the air in such as way as to make that body of air lose energy (the law of 'conservation of energy') The best way to make the air mass lose energy is by pushing on it in the opposite direction to that which it's moving. The top turn of a DS circuit does just that and I think by pulling hard at the top you're applying the greatest possible force causing the air to lose the maximum amount of energy... Unfortunately it's not as simple as that, you just can't turn hard in low wind and sometimes pulling too much elevator can create too much drag and slow your plane but DSing my Reaper in high wind, my observation is you almost can't turn hard enough in the top turn. Not sure if it's the same DSing a mouldie at big speeds... Ezza? |
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Post by ezza on Nov 9, 2007 19:46:58 GMT 10
Excellent Andrew!! It brought a big smile to my face, reading your story. I can picture you there, toying with the idea of throwing out the MiniJ! I'll never forget my nerves/emotions as I ds'ed an expensive mouldie for the first time! On a day, like you had today, your skills go up real fast. It takes so long just to link a few laps together (atleast for me), then you get a whole day of it, burning up hundreds of circles. Stoked to hear it mate. Awesome!!
Sean is right timing is everything. I also think, getting the laps as horizontal as possible is really important. Getting that bottom turn just under the shear rather than scraping the ground. Also helps save the airframe. I have found a limit though with pulling hard until you are going 'really' fast. Even with the reaper which can bang an amazing top turn, a full pull will scrub off speed. I find my self 'riding' the elevator all the way around the circle. I like to go 'just' into the lift on that top turn. If the turn is too early, in the turbulence, it can roll you in or out. I used to consentrate on crazy hard top turns with my Destiny. I would use 'snap flap' and the top turns just 'pinged' and looked amazing. Problem is this tends to throw you down the back, quickly, and sometimes at wierd angles. Any 'brain freeze' and it is all over. With the Opus I have noticed smooth and big circles seems to give the best speeds, but does not look quite as impressive.
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Post by ezza on Nov 9, 2007 19:50:39 GMT 10
it needs to push on the air in such as way as to make that body of air lose energy (the law of 'conservation of energy') The best way to make the air mass lose energy is by pushing on it in the opposite direction to that which it's moving. The top turn of a DS circuit does just that and I think by pulling hard at the top you're applying the greatest possible force causing the air to lose the maximum amount of energy... I have never heard this but it makes perfect sense! Great description. |
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Post by ezza on Nov 9, 2007 20:11:15 GMT 10
I was starting to get adrenaline withdrawals again, so I took the JW up for a session at the lighthouse tonight. As I was walking up to the hanglider launch I couldn't believe how much 'dead' air was over the back. I mean 'dead'. No sign of air moving around at all, yet I know it was 15-20knots on the front. Launched out and the wind was SSW, cross slope but the lift was still amazing. There is a small gap in the trees, to the north of the pad, just enough to see the plane and try it out. Any wobbles in the circuit and the plane is invisible behind trees though! First time I had tried it in this spot and boy there was LOTS of power. Great for foamies, but landing is quite nerve racking to say the least. The jungle is so dense. I figure for every 1 metre you land into the scrub, allow 1 minute to retrieve! Pretty frustrating as this fantastic ds groove is 'almost' impossible to fly due to vision and landing. Still was excellent practise and starting to get more comfortable with the site. I have now flown off this pad in everything from E to SSW. Really spectacular with eagles hovering right in front of you. There is a resident seaeagle and it was right in front of me at one stage with a huge fish in its talons. Just need to get that cherry picker you were talking about Andrew! |
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Post by thevon on Nov 10, 2007 21:35:58 GMT 10
Just had the most awesome day DSing up at the Camel Hump at Bald Knob. The weather forecast looked promising but there was nothin' here early, and Ezza had SE winds but pouring rain at Byron Bay. It was getting breezy here by 11 when Gerard and I left.
On arrival we headed down to the Hump, Gerard with 2 Ozpreys and me with the Bat, Drongo and Minij. Hmm, light sidewind, no lift, had to ditch. Gerard went back up to the top in disgust, to see if he could find some lift. To make it worse it looked like rain. I persevered and soon the conditions improved and the Bat was cranking around the back of the ridge.
Sean turned up with his Dad Rod who's visiting. Rod's a professional model builder by trade, which helps to explain Sean's incredibly slick build and covering jobs! Ezza and son Michael arrived soon after, armed with a JW, Reaper and the glossy heavy stiff Opus MC3.
Sean started flying his Reaper and looked pretty quick in the bowl, and we ripped out the radar guns and soon recorded a speed of 117mph, beating Ezza’s previous foamie record of 115. It was reassuring that our 2 guns read exactly the same!
I got the Bat really winding up in the big bowl, big circles and going deep. Top speed 78mph. At one stage we had the Bat and both Reapers in a big circuit, plus Michael having a stab with the JW down lower. Then Ezza and I had a big mid-air! Broke his carbon tail boom (again!) and ripped my wing a bit. Mine was flying again in 5 mins but Ezza needed a glue job and an hour to cure.
Anyway, without crapping on too long it was a lot of fun. Like most DS days, the conditions seemed to constantly change and the best spot would stop working well and it would be best somewhere a bit further down the ridge. Or it would be smooth then suddenly get wildly turbulent.
The wind got much stronger by 3pm and Sean put in another stunning Reaper performance, upping his PB and the record, to 127mph. Ezza started jumping at the prospect of putting the Opus up. On launch it had no probs getting heaps of height and it is extremely impressive to watch. He DS’ed it in several spots but the Opus really needs more space to wind up – he was nervous about going too deep since the consequences of bottoming out into a tree were too great! Everyone was on a buzz just watching. We clocked it at 122mph and when he exited the circuits and shot skywards, you couldn’t believe the height it specked out at! The thing is a work of art and truly awesome. We clapped when after its screaming fast session the carbon rocket came in to land as softly as a feather on top of the ridge. It was a privilege to watch!
Several other guys from the club came down at times to fly and to watch. Young Shane who’s a bit of a natural watched for a bit then asked how to DS. We gave him some tips, not expecting much but he kept persevering all arvo and was actually getting his Duck working quite well, holding a fast tight pattern and hitting 66mph!
Sean got serious down the far end of the ridge and got the Reaper really wound up – it looked very crazy fast, tight hard flickover circuits and lots of noise so we jumped out with the guns and before long he’d cracked the record again – up to 138mph!!! Amazing.
On my next session I gave the Drongo a go, and it was winding up nicely. I tried to follow Sean’s previous line and just as Michael called 78mph I went low and close and the action stopped very suddenly. Unfortunately, (said very quietly and with sombre respectful tones ... ) the Drongo is no more. The big tree didn't seem harmed but the Drongo is, well, a mess. When it hit it sounded like one of those woodchoppers at the Ekka taking the first big swing at a log.
But I got my revenge back by working harder with the Bat and hitting 94mph!
Gerard didn’t have any luck DSing the Ozprey and is talking about maybe getting a Bat … but he’s not comfortable with the concept of damaging planes! Much mental conflict! Go on Gerard, you’ll be one of the best!
We flew till almost dark and when we left Ezza was still helping Michael who on his 2nd day of DS was getting the JW into some decent loops.
We’ve had some really dud DS days but today was a big win. Thanks for the fun, guys. I had a big headache and it was good to have Gerard to talk to because I could hardly keep my eyes open on the way home!
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Post by sean on Nov 10, 2007 22:13:39 GMT 10
Yep, awesome day, really fun to have a group of DS nuts all togther on the one ridge! I didn't expect high speeds today, I thought it'd be too east but it turned out to be a cracker. I'm pretty stoked about the Reaper hitting 138mph, upping my PB! Early in the day it managed a 117, which I was happy about, breaking my PB and Ezza's Aus foamie record of 115 with his Reaper. Really wanted to get past 120 though as the day seemed good for it. An hour or two later it managed a 127 pass, and that seemed good enough for the day, I was pretty stoked and thought that was a good speed for the Reaper on this hill. But the wind kept picking up and late in the day it started smoking pulling tight circles right in close to the hill as a gust went though. Then Michael, who was manning Eric's Stalker called out "138!" and I could hardly believe it, as good a speed as I could have hoped from a foamie on this hill! I was pulling full elev at the top of every circuit and often had full elev in the bottom too which doesn't happen often with the Reaper. The conditions were rough, there was a spot right at the bottom turn which seemed to suck your plane towards the ground, and there are trees very close to the ideal place for the bottom turn - as a result there were a number of very close calls, but managed to hold it togther and take the Reaper home in one piece thankfully! I am so happy with this plane, it felt rock solid the whole time and looked like it had more in it, all it needs is the right hill and the right weather. I also feel particularly lucky that there were two radars on the hill as I usually DS with no radar and I'm pretty sure this is the fastest the Reaper has been. With a radar DSing makes much more sense, you have something to take home in the form of measured speeds, and you get definite feedback on where the fastest lines are and so on. Andrew was DSing really well all day and his Bat holds its energy brilliantly. He got lots of laps in, flying big, fast consistent circles. He even DSed his Minij a little which was very brave given the conditions. Shane DSing his Duck was very impressive, he picked it up quicker than anyone I've seen, by the end of the day he was flying consistent circuits through the strong turbulence, even though the Duck is a bit light and quite tricky to DS in such conditions. 66 on a rough day with a Duck is some nice flying even for an experienced DSer. When Eric got his Opus out everyone stopped flying. It just looks and sounds so impressive in the air, and Eric flies it very smoothly. Amazing to see it DSing, and like Andrew said watching it spec out when leaving the DS zone is something to behold, like a turbine. The other highlight was four of us DSing at once! Michael with the JW, Andrew with the Bat, Shane with the Duck and myself with the Reaper! Go for it Gerard! You won't be disappointed . Another great day of DSing, dad really enjoyed himself too. I'm totally knackered ;D. |
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Post by ezza on Nov 10, 2007 23:41:51 GMT 10
What a huge day! My head is still spinning. That was about the best day of ds for me ever!! Great to see everyone, Mike and I are so glad we made the trip. Everyone upped their PB today, except for me..........,but I have had plenty of luck lately. ;D My son managed 81mph with the JW tonight. I have only ever gone 88 with it as it needs re-balancing and retaping of the elevons, to solve some issues. He is learning quickly as this was only his second try at ds'ing. Go Mike!! Really enjoyed watching Sean today with that beautiful Reaper. He has put in soo much time and effort to build that thing perfectly, to his design. No one deserves it more. Truly awesome flying!! Congrats mate. It looked absolutely crazy, you must be stoked!! Andrew was tearing it up and I reckon he did more laps than anyone today. The training wheels are well and truly off now mate. Thanks for giving me a go of the Bat. It is a really sweet machine. It was great to have two radar guns. It was good to verify that they read the same speeds. It was also good to have them at different points of the circuit as the plane is not always going straight at the gun. This gave twice the chance of the real speed being captured. We finally scored a really good day. Man I am so worn out. Got to get to bed. Eric |
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Post by windsock on Nov 11, 2007 10:52:06 GMT 10
Great day yesterday. I've updated the Windsock website with about 18 photos from the day.
I've decided to bite the bullet and get a DS plane which I can practice with. The OzPrey as good as it is just doesn't DS that great. I've decided to get a bat which I can practice, trash and improve my skills before I get a Reaper.
I've talked briefly to Andrew about his servos, can you guys suggest what set-up I should have e.g. servos & receiver and where you bought them from? I had a few issues with my receiver yesterday in my OzPrey and want to have confidence that the gear will be fine.
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Post by ezza on Nov 11, 2007 13:01:58 GMT 10
Great day yesterday. I've updated the Windsock website with about 18 photos from the day. I've decided to bite the bullet and get a DS plane which I can practice with. The OzPrey as good as it is just doesn't DS that great. I've decided to get a bat which I can practice, trash and improve my skills before I get a Reaper. I've talked briefly to Andrew about his servos, can you guys suggest what set-up I should have e.g. servos & receiver and where you bought them from? I had a few issues with my receiver yesterday in my OzPrey and want to have confidence that the gear will be fine. Hey Gerard, Good to see you yesterday. Thanks for posting the photos. I have JR RS70 PPM recievers in all my planes and they didn't seem to have any problems yesterday. However I did get a glitch in my Destiny once, flying right in front of the tower on the south face. I would go with Andrews setup as far as servo's etc,. His seemed to ds real nice. Eric |
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...
. When the wind is sufficient banging the top turn really cranks up the speed as long as the plane's fairly efficient and up to the loads. I read an article in an aircraft magazine about DSing 'full-size' (man-carrying) gliders. It involved pushing and pulling on the stick at just the right time while passing through thermals, not at all the same as the DSing we do with models, but in it they state that for your plane to gain energy, it needs to push on the air in such as way as to make that body of air lose energy (the law of 'conservation of energy') The best way to make the air mass lose energy is by pushing on it in the opposite direction to that which it's moving. The top turn of a DS circuit does just that and I think by pulling hard at the top you're applying the greatest possible force causing the air to lose the maximum amount of energy... Unfortunately it's not as simple as that, you just can't turn hard in low wind and sometimes pulling too much elevator can create too much drag and slow your plane but DSing my Reaper in high wind, my observation is you almost can't turn hard enough in the top turn. Not sure if it's the same DSing a mouldie at big speeds... Ezza?