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Post by felix on Sept 5, 2008 20:00:59 GMT 10
wow shiny smooth wings in an evening? mate count me in lol. really looking forward to this and would love to be there watching the process! may hold off on the eagle wing for now.
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Post by Vanders on Sept 6, 2008 7:59:25 GMT 10
Ditto, would love to see the process first hand. I agree as well anything that reduces building time can only be a good thing!!!
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Post by jirvin4505 on Sept 6, 2008 8:37:42 GMT 10
Ditto, would love to see the process first hand. I agree as well anything that reduces building time can only be a good thing!!! Vanders and felix...That is one of my goals with this project. Passing on the techniques . The vac bag techniques are getting pretty well sorted out. The Phil Barnes video was a relevation on how simple the process is. As i say .. i look at the foamy builds and get intimidated! @"Shane (playinthepark) does excellent work with his molding and vac bagging. Skyboyken and myself put together some handlaunch wings using the process. There would be some "lurkers" on this forum from my MRSSA club who have had plenty of experience with the techniques. Just got to get the information and practice into the hands of those who want to be builders. I learnt a lot of techniques from my MRSSA club when we did a club building project - the "Club Glider" . Thus my reference to the "Winsock Planc". @andrew ..some great fuz ideas there. At this stage a little too complex. Was thinking a simple pod attached underneath like the reaper. cheers jeff
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Post by skyboyken on Sept 6, 2008 22:29:29 GMT 10
Hi Guys! If you're going to do a bagged wing and a fuse, why not do a conventional aircraft? That way there's no worry over trimming/CG etc. Tails can be bagged balsa/glass or bagged foam/glass. In fact Jeff, IIRC Dr Drela said his DLG wing works well as a fast slopey - all it needs is less/no dihedral and a spar, which any bagged wing will need. You already have all the 'tooling' except for the spar. The layup can be heavy/cheap as that'll work well for this purpose. Really, the only difference between a plank and a plane is the airfoil choice and the horizontal tail, build time will be pretty much the same. As for 2 servo vs 4 servo wings, for most guys the biggest difference is whether your Transmitter can drive a 4 servo wing and what servos they have lying around. If the tranny can cope then you can use smaller cheaper servos and shorter surfaces and away you go - crow brakes and all. If it can't then 2 servos with longer surfaces which need extra work to make them stiff. Again there's not a big difference by the time all is said and done. If a group build happens I'm interested (MY God WHAT AM I SAYING? ) Ken.
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Post by jirvin4505 on Sept 6, 2008 23:48:45 GMT 10
skyboyken Yes .... Had a talk to Sean and Shane today and pretty well came to the same conclusion. theVon dropped off his minij wing for a PM and I am amazed at how simply it was built. 60" white foam with ~ 2 layers of 3oz glass in the skin. Thin airfoil and no spar. The glass wasn't even at 45 degree bias. Given the testing that andrew put into that wing what a tribute to a simple way of building models. Sent Sean home tonight with the Phil Barnes videos - we may have some bagging happening soon. >group build? Happy to do shed workshops/demos but not up for organising/coordinating a group project. Keen to have the project as a catalyst for others to develop their skills. cheers jeff cheers jeff
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Post by chamm37 on Sept 6, 2008 23:58:41 GMT 10
do you reakon you could also give me a copy of those DVDs aswell jeff and i am very kken on getting some well known knowlege i am happily to take in ;Di would be very keen even to watch you build it and give you a hand or too along the way if possible ae mate
Regards, Chris ;D
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Post by thevon on Sept 7, 2008 6:31:02 GMT 10
Glad you came to the decision about a conventional design rather than a plank. AGain I preface by saying I'm not an expert ... rather humbled by the build skills and flying skills of many others. But it seems to me from flying them that planks are very fast and simple, but track a more vague line around the sky than do the "proper" planes. Never ceases to amaze me how much more confident one feels flying a conventional plane in a tight spot, compared to an elevon model.
(sigh) I'll start chasing up a fridge pump!
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Post by sean on Sept 7, 2008 10:27:50 GMT 10
After a long visit to Jeff's shed, plus lots of discussion between Jeff, Shane and myself, the plan of attack on this project so far is as follows: I'm gonna make a T-tail fuse plug and Jeff is going to help me make a mold from it. The T-tail will be designed for strength and speed along the lines of an F5B or F5D plane, the fuse wil be sized for a 60" wing. The elev servo will fit in the fin so no need to route pushrods etc. Once that's out of the way we can bag whatever wing we feel is suitable, and use whatever layup is suitable on the fuse. Anyone interested in having a go at molding/bagging can use the mold and templates to have a go.
Eg for a cheap, simple DSer we'd have a single-taper wing and use glass on the wing and fuse layup with no spar. To keep cost really low you could use three servos - 2 in the wings and one for elev. The added cost over a plank is then one servo and a tiny bit more glass/epoxy for the longer fuse, plus the time it takes to make a horizontal tail. In return we get a plane with good handling, good light wind ability, is easy to tune and will survive landings better than a plank. If we fork out for an extra two servos for flaps then we get a plane that lands nice and slow.
My aim would also be to use the same fuse mold to make a DSer capable of going really fast, by using an appropriately stiff layup and perhaps making a multi-taper, sparred four-servo wing. But first up will be a few simple cheapies.
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Post by thevon on Sept 7, 2008 11:04:52 GMT 10
Sounds great. I guess if making the lighter version, one could cut a rudder section out of the tail, reinforce it, and set it up.
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Post by sean on Sept 7, 2008 12:57:57 GMT 10
Hey Andrew, that would be dependent on the elev servo pushrod - you'd have to be able to route it to clear the rudder.
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Post by felix on Sept 7, 2008 19:45:52 GMT 10
jirvin really interested getting started into composites hearing everyone here talk about it (monkey see monkey do? lol).......how much roughly does it cost to get set up and if it's not too much of a hassle can you point me in the direction of any good links/sites that could get me started? got the eagle to build next and am dead keen on getting started asap. think glass would be the way to go with this one. thanks in advance.
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Post by jirvin4505 on Sept 7, 2008 20:50:23 GMT 10
jirvin really interested getting started into composites hearing everyone here talk about it (monkey see monkey do? lol).......how much roughly does it cost to get set up and if it's not too much of a hassle can you point me in the direction of any good links/sites that could get me started? got the eagle to build next and am dead keen on getting started asap. think glass would be the way to go with this one. thanks in advance. >really interested getting started into composites felix this is what I want to do is get some of what I can demonstrate happening. >how much roughly does it cost to get set up ....I spent thousands However a very simple setup can be done for next to nothing, other than materials that is. Vac pump...old fringe unit (free) Mylar for the bagging...$20 per meter square Some suitable wax - go in with somebody on that one. $5.00 Bagging tube. I generally give enough away to shed visitors to get them going... free Blue foam .. get on Shanes order..$80 probably enough for 5-10 wings. Proper epoxy .. I use ATL- (always happy to split an order) ~$25 per kg enough for 5 models. Making molds chews thru the epoxy. Fillers and glass $10 - $20 a model Foam cutter - probably best to have one that is passed around. Make your own $10-$50 I think that will give a general basis for a 60" model. Best approach .. Watch the Phil Barnes video - Sean has mine (getting any sleep Sean?) but there are a few copies available. On RCgroups have a look at some of Samotages Jart posts in the slope forum. Work your way thru the stickies on the composite forum RCgroups. And if you a up for it (Masters Class).. best info on composite construction are the Supergee11 (part1...part5) and the Tabooish threads. A visit to Shane's or my shed will save heaps of money and reinventing the wheel. Skyboyken has been apart of building a composite DLG and will have skills that he can offer also. A number of the MRSSA club members (centre of excellence for flat field flying and composite building) also have well developed composite skills - not sure if you have any links/contacts my club? >Eagle.. not sure what an eagle is? What type of foam? cheers jeff
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Post by felix on Sept 7, 2008 21:14:50 GMT 10
Thanks jervin, greatly appreciate the offer to have you show me the ropes –just have to arrange a time that suits you i'll be there in a flash! wow I can’t believe how cheap it is to get started and if it’s as easy to do as you say I can safely say I’ll be converted in an instant. I will spend some time searching those links you mentioned and try to get an idea of the process. Where can I get a copy of that dvd? The eagle is this – www.flycs.co.nz/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=1&flypage=shop.flypage-plane&product_id=18&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=55I have just the wing/aileron set. It’s cut EPP and I know glassing it will sorta defeat it’s original purpose but from what I have seen it is an excellent performer. The fuse is from one of these - www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1060.htmlFuse will need a stronger boom and such but is very strong/light and the wingset will fit with very little fuss.
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Post by jirvin4505 on Sept 7, 2008 21:40:46 GMT 10
felix Shed visit..will contact you presently getting back into bagging at the moment - did half a wing today - not feeling the best and made a few blunders My be doing more on Wednesday night. >dvd's Commercially..link here.. www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190214 or wait until my copy becomes available. Some others floating around .. Anybody?? >more info on bagging especially DLG .. homepage.ntlworld.com/goddo/Techniques.htmStop me if I start overwhelming you - I'm a bit passionate about building DLG's >eagle Epp wing .. probably better build as standard as I don't know of Epp and vac bagging. >boom.. If your looking for a genuine DLG boom (I make my own) I have some DLG booms that came from the USA $30 each. I bought a lot of 10 before I realised that I could make my own. >gp fling fuz .. yes is suitable will probably need a little beafing up around the front opening. >composites easy to do?? Depends on your mileage.. I find balsa wings hard to build .. I get intimidated when I see Epp, Spackle and polyurethane. Would rather make a mold than put a balsa fuzelarge in the air. They are all skills that take developing but the information is available. cheers jeff
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Post by chamm37 on Sept 7, 2008 22:14:20 GMT 10
would i be able to go around this weekend on Saturday and would you be able to show me how it is done please ;D
Regards, Chris ;D
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