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Post by combatnoosa on Nov 21, 2009 7:58:40 GMT 10
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Post by skyboyken on Nov 21, 2009 8:42:30 GMT 10
Hi Combatnoosa. not to be a killjoy, but please make sure you're aware that there are risks with bringing in 2.4Gz transmitters. If you aren't a member of a club and don't fly with insurance, then you're not at any greater risk. I know there are lots of guys who fly slope who'd LOVE to be in a club but there aren't any available. I'm working to change that, but it's a slow process. If you are a member of a club and do fly with insurance, you are responsible for proving your 2.4 GH radio gear wasn't the cause of any incident UNLESS it has a C-Tick, i.e. unless it was bought in Australia through a distributor who has paid to have it tested and approved. If you can't prove your gear is compliant with all relevant Australian regulations then you are fully liable, the insurance doesn't cover you. For more info, have a look at the MAAA website, www.maaa.asn.au and go to the Manual of Procedures MOP058. Go Great, and enjoy the hobby! Ken. |
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Post by thevon on Nov 21, 2009 10:49:43 GMT 10
Ken on the subject of things that result in you being liable, can I run this past you just to clarify things. Is it correct to say that if you are a member of a MAAA affiliated club then you MAY benefit from the insurance that MAAA membership provides. However that insurance can be invalidated by various things such as using non-compliant equipment, or flying at non-club approved sites where the owner has not given permission (which most of us slopers do regularly). For example isn't it true to say that Maleny members aren't covered by insurance when flying at Brandenburg? In that case if an accident occurs and an injured party makes a claim against you, the MAAA insurance won't help. And if you get injured you won't get any assistance. You're on your own.
Similarly, if you're not a member of a club then you're on your own.
I guess you're wondering "what is my point" ... ! I've got a bit jaded by the whole club insurance thing, and I think it's a bit of a con. It doesn't really offer much. When I was bike racing the insurance went up about 6 fold over 10 yrs or so, and the benefits got pruned back till the point where you could easily go and buy better insurance cheaper. But you don't have that option. The peak body says you have to use their insurer's package policy. And they try to frighten non-members into joining because then you won't be "liable". But they put so many conditions on the policy that you're rarely in a situation where you'd be covered. And if someone does make a claim the underwriter looks for every loophole to get out of it.
Cranky Andy.
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Post by sean on Nov 21, 2009 11:51:28 GMT 10
I was under the impression that you were only insured when flying at an MAAA registered club site but nowhere else. So for us that means Bald Knob but nowhere else. Those in the know - please correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry to hijack your thread CombatNoosa.  |
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Post by combatnoosa on Nov 21, 2009 12:30:20 GMT 10
Thats cool guys, that is what the forums are about, info... As far as I am concerned insurance is a joke in any form. Realistically if you saved what you spend on insurance, in the rare event of needing to claim the money you save would cover your claim. I worked it out once with health insurance and it was cheaper to just save money and use it to spend on your "claim". But I am most likely wrong, I am sure someone will tell me so  I have only ever hit one person when flying. I was flying at point perry and I was on approach to land, there was an old fella talking to me and watching me fly and as I was landing a gust caught the wing and picked the plane up and drove it into the guy knocking him to the ground.... He was ok and was amused by the situation and even got a photo with me pretending to kill my plane, guess I was lucky he didn't hurt anything. Actually make that two people I hit, Nick was a victim of plane attack but he deserved it because he hit me about 5 minutes beforehand. The fact that my girl will be using the radio if I get it is a bit worrying as her flying skillz at this point in time are erm amaturish? Jay |
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Post by skyboyken on Nov 21, 2009 18:17:05 GMT 10
Andrew, please take 2 Valium with a full glass of scotch and call me when you wake up in about a fortnight  . Sean, this is a common misconception. As an MAAA member you are covered when flying ANYWHERE that you have the owners permission to fly (verbal is fine, written is better). I don't know whether we have the owners' permission at Brandenburg or not. Combatnoosa, liability insurance is very different to health insurance. Let's say you hit someone in the face with your plane and they lost an eye. Without the MAAA insurance you could end up losing everything you own and owing huge sums besides. The MAAA insurance is there to protect you from your own actions. This specifically INCLUDES NEGLIGENCE. This means that even if you are doing something dumb or careless the policy will cover you, however there are some exceptions. All insurance policies have exemptions and the MAAA's is no different. I have asked a lot of questions about the policy and I am assured that it is exceptionally rare for a claim to not be accepted by our insurer. The particular instance of a crash because of the failure of a private import 2.4GHz transmitter that doesn't comply with Australian regulations is a legal issue. It's illegal to operate a non-compliant transmitter of any type, and no insurance covers you for illegal activities. Note that if your transmitter is compliant then you should be able to prove it and there won't be a problem. See MOP058 for details, don't ask me as I'm not going to regurgitate it for you. And now I have to insert a disclaimer that this advice is general in nature and don't rely on it but rather do your own research if you are concerned. Sorry but I don't want to get sued. Go Great! Ken. |
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Post by combatnoosa on Nov 21, 2009 23:16:06 GMT 10
Haha good luck to them, I am a second year electrical apprentice, all they are going to get is my car and they can have my fiancee's bloody cats! oh and a smashed face...
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Post by mikey100 on Nov 22, 2009 8:03:02 GMT 10
"The MAAA insurance is there to protect you from your own actions. This specifically INCLUDES NEGLIGENCE. This means that even if you are doing something dumb or careless the policy will cover you..." WOW, dont let this out or there some among us who would see this as a licence to do DUMB!
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Post by skyboyken on Nov 22, 2009 8:41:08 GMT 10
Sigh... I seem to be able to do that regularly even without a licence Ken. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 22, 2009 12:10:16 GMT 10
Just curious if the MAAA covers crown land/state or national parks? (though I don't think we're able to fly in Nat parks legally anyway!?)
Steve
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Post by thevon on Nov 22, 2009 14:20:18 GMT 10
I would have thought that we were OK to fly in National Parks, Forestry, etc. I don't have any facts to back it up but I wouldn't hold back from flying off a hill in a Nat Park. Have already done so and planning to do it more too! There are some fantastic clifflines I've seen on remote bushwalks and I'd love to get up there with a fast foamie!
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Post by Steve on Nov 22, 2009 16:04:13 GMT 10
Absolutely, I was approached by a couple of Rangers down in Vic when flying on a great coastal cliff (part of a State Park) who were very interested and had a chat with my for about 15min or so while I was flying. One even pulled out a camera and took some footage. They were very happy for me to be there and fly, but that still doesn't mean that a) we have 'official' approval or b) would be covered by the MAAA. Sometimes it might be case of best not to ask too many questions or you might find out some info that you don't want to know   Steve |
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Post by skyboyken on Nov 22, 2009 18:43:58 GMT 10
All that is required for you to be covered while flying is that you are a member of the MAAA and that you have permission from the landowner to fly there. In the case of government-owned land there is always some authority (Council etc) who acts as the owner and is able to give or refuse permission to fly.
It is worth noting that if you are ever talking about the pros and cons of giving permission with an owner or a government authority, you can point out to them that if flying is going on without their permission and someone gets hurt they may be liable in part or in whole, whereas if they give approval they are covered by the MAAA policy (provided it's MAAA members who are doing the flying).
So it is definitely in an owners interest to give permission if there is going to be flying. Councils in particular are very receptive to this idea. That's not all you need to do to get council approval but it is a key part of any proposal to council.
Go Great!
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Post by graememarion on Nov 22, 2009 23:41:29 GMT 10
Insurance is a can of worms. Having MAAA insurance does not mean that the insurance company will automatically pay up if you injure someone with your model at a sanctioned field.
Your negligence first has to be proved. For instance. Let us say you were flying your model in a safe and legal manner. Then you were attacked in the face by a swarm of killer bees. While you were trying to fight off the killer bees your model hit and injured someone. The insurance company could argue that you were not negligent. That you had done everything humanly possible to avoid an accident and that they therefore were not liable to pay damages. Refer to www.tmac.asn.au/miscdocs/Transmitter%20Jan-Feb%202008.pdf1) Public Liability
Scope of Cover
This policy provides indemnity for members who are
held liable for a negligent act whilst involved in
sanctioned activities as per the MAAA Manual of
Procedures (http://www.maaa.asn.au/mop.html),
and result in property damage or bodily injury anywhere
in the world excluding the USA and Canada.I know this sounds ridiculous but ........ If you are negligent they will pay. If you are not negligent they will not pay.  |
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Post by thevon on Nov 23, 2009 6:46:08 GMT 10
Yes Graeme that's a good point. I remember that the insurance guy explained that to me about professional indemnity insurance for vets. It only covers things involving your negligence. There are lots of other events that can happen where you wouldn't be injured. I don't understand the process but if the crash was clearly due to radio gear failure, you wouldn't be the cause so your insurance wouldn't pay up - they would want to pass the liability onto the radio manufacturer etc. But it's a grey area as to whether they'd accept the claim and fight it for you, or refuse it in which case it would be up to you to attack the manufacturer (which you could never afford to do, and would almost certainly be unsuccessful anyway).
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