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Post by chamm37 on May 19, 2008 22:16:52 GMT 10
[glow=green,2,300]i want to get into doing some D'sing.....and i was wondering if anyone would know of a plane that would be great for me to learn how to off of it...[/glow]
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Post by felix on May 19, 2008 22:33:31 GMT 10
simple.....the bee.already taken to over 100mph and will stand up to any punishment.
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Post by chamm37 on May 19, 2008 22:39:22 GMT 10
oh ok kool......i have just got a new bevolution and yer......what do you think of that doing the D'sing
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Post by felix on May 19, 2008 22:53:51 GMT 10
honestly i don't know enough to answer that,i have only ds'd once and that was with my modified bee that had CF spars. others will know better here but my guess is a spars would be the way to go.
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Post by chamm37 on May 19, 2008 22:54:11 GMT 10
From what i have read, You would need a spare in it to be the most efective in D'sing because the spar would stop it from flexing in the flight.....
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Post by skyboyken on May 19, 2008 23:31:58 GMT 10
FWIW, I had 1 go with a modified Bat that was hard work, then moved to a Reaper. The Reaper really does make it a lot easier. It cuts through turbulence and it carries its energy really well so you can stuff up and still have the energy to punch out frontside and come around for another go. A really good pilot can probably DS anything. I'm a mediocre pilot at best and I need all the help I can get . My vote would definitely be for a Reaper. Its performance on the frontside will blow you away as well . Ken.
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Post by ezza on May 19, 2008 23:40:51 GMT 10
I have to agree with Ken on the Reaper.
Another really good alternative is the JW. Probably easier and bouncier than the Reaper, but not quite as fast on the frontside. Best inverted flier around.
Your Bee will be more than enough to get you started/addicted.
Eric
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Post by lucky on May 20, 2008 0:01:10 GMT 10
I doubted it at first, but after a bit of work I got my Bee to DS in an almost horizontal fasion- maybe 20 degree inline over the lip of a small slope with no backside here at Point Vernon. It gained energy but this Bee has a bit more structural re-inforcement than a combat dedicated wing. It took heaps of spills and prangs doing so. All the best with it, there are a heap of choices out there, currently I am trying to learn how to DS a mega-beef modified Bat that is only happy when its making a most astounding noise when it gets on step.
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Post by thevon on May 20, 2008 9:37:37 GMT 10
Guys, I have to put in a vote for a Bat. I'm sure Ken won't mind me saying, his was an "abnormally built - !!??!" Bat. He made a mistake with his modding, cut too much out of the back wing root, and it ended up with trailing sweep - and it just didn't fly well. Sean and I on the other hand have had amazing success with our modified Bats which have straight trailing edges (like a Superfreak Bat). But from what we've heard, for DSing, the stock shape is best! Sean cut his DSing teeth on his Bat and did some long and fast hours of very impressive DS with it before getting the Reaper. I was impressed with his and I built one and never looked back. He rebuilt his four times and the last time, it ended up so heavy it wasn't very much fun.
WE have both done "modified Bat" build threads on this forum. I now have another kit and will soon be starting on it! It will be a standard shape this time, with a thicker central spar. As soon as the old one's trashed ... but that's the thing with the Bat, it really keeps going! So I might not be starting the newy for a while.
The best thing about the Bat is its toughness. Being made of the same stuff as the Bee. Secondly, unlike the Bee, the Bat likes flying seriously fast. Thirdly, it's much better behaved than a Reaper. When the lift's patchy you'll be able to fly it and enjoy it when the Reaper would be struggling. My Bat has been a lot of fun at Shorncliffe, but I won't fly the Reaper there. It needs heaps more space to get on step. Fourthly, the Bat build is really easy.
During our session on Sunday Sean commented that he missed his Bat, and that mine was a seriously quick foamie. My opinion is there's no better DS learner than the Bat. No fuse to break off. It bounces and flies again.
On a different note, you can really DS anything, when the conditions suit them. In light smooth conditions a light plane will do nice circles, so the Bee will be good there. But when the wind's 25kts you need something heavy and fast.
Don't get a really fast heavy plane to learn to DS, unless you're used to flying something fast, and you have good aerobatic skills. You hear guys say they have a plane that's fast ... and sometimes it's quick on a small slope (like the Ozprey at Shorncliffe) but it's not in the league of a Reaper, Drongo, etc. It's really scary when you first fly a plane that chews up half a km of sky in a few seconds! Don't bite off more than you can chew or you'll end up frustrated!
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Post by sean on May 20, 2008 11:33:57 GMT 10
Definitely give it a go, you'll love it! The thing to remember is almost anything can be DSed, so long as the weather conditions are suitable. The ideal DS trainer would be something that can fly in a wide range of wind speeds and on most DS hills, is crash resistant, retains energy well, and is easy to build and setup. There are a few planes around that come close to that requirement, but very few, or none, that fulfill it completely, IMO. In light of that my advice would be "try before you buy". Get up to a DSable hill with your BeEvolution on a day when DSing is possible. The Bee will be harder to DS than something faster and heavier but it will definitely DS - even dead-standard with tape covering etc. Another downside to the Bee is you will be limited by weather conditions - it won't DS well in really strong wind or really light wind, but would be fine in smooth, medium strength wind. If you enjoy yourself and find you can get to a DSable hill on a regular basis, then you'll have a better idea of what kind of plane to build next. Bats are very good DS trainers when modified the right way. My experience has been a bit different to Andrew's - I found that mine hated light lift and had a tendency to tip-stall if I didn't keep the speed up. Some Bats are better than others here but they all tip-stall! If not modified just right they can fly really badly! Built stock they're not much better than a Bee to DS IMO, and much worse in all other regards. The thing to keep in mind about Bats is they can be very very good, or very very bad, but rarely anything in between! Worth a go if you've got a bit of building and setting up experience - you need to have a clear understanding of how to modify them to DS well. Reapers are relatively easy to DS but they are expensive and a complicated build - you need experience covering with Profilm, setting up CGs and control throws to within very tight tolerances, etc etc. If you are comfortable with those tasks then they are a good choice. But... if you haven't flown a high performance sloper before I suspect they'd be a bit too much. If not setup just right they'll fly badly and won't survive regular crashing nearly as well as something that doesn't have a fuse. Lastly they're no fun at all flying frontside on a small coastal site such as Shorncliffe. The right plane will make you enjoy DSing a lot more, but IMO it's better to focus on your skills rather than the plane to start with, and for that the BeEvoultion would be just fine . Sean.
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Post by thevon on May 20, 2008 13:16:32 GMT 10
Yeah my initial Bat build was insanely good even in moderate conditions. It was really impressive - quick and nippy. When I rebuilt it I added a lot of weight and it got less friendly to fly, but it's still good and if the lift isn't great I prefer to play around with the Bat before launching the Reaper. The Bat has had so many shocking prangs and hardly spends any time on the bench, but the Reaper's always going back in for major repairs!
For learning, I think the Ozprey's a good thing, it goes faster than a Bee, totally friendly and forgiving to fly. It will never compete with a Bat for speed - retention, but it does all the right things when DS'ed in mild conditions. But you need to reinforce the fuse with stiffeners, and goop it well to the wing. I love the Ozprey.
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Post by chamm37 on May 20, 2008 16:48:28 GMT 10
well ok now reading all of that makes me wonder now? ?where can i get a bat from...... oh and i was wondering if i get it would anyone be able to build it for me so that i can fly it well and me build and i stuff it up.... oh and thanks guys for the replies....keep them up ;D
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Post by Pij on May 20, 2008 18:06:24 GMT 10
I see two good choices:
1) Use your Bee for now. It's a good all-rounder, and suitable for your first tries.
2) Follow the build advice and tips from guys here on the forum who've built one before. They'll set you straight!
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Post by felix on May 20, 2008 18:10:10 GMT 10
chamm if you feel like you want to make your bee evolution faster i can give you a few pointers for modifications.i have only ds'd my bee a couple of times round trees and already i can say that the bee has alot of potential with the right mods (only downside is they become less than ideal for combat)
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Post by chamm37 on May 20, 2008 18:55:20 GMT 10
ok felix what do i need to do?
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